KIA DIR: Kiaeddz: "I'm on the verge of quitting..."

[Mulla Nasrudin]

Оriginally Postеd by KIAEddZ

I am too tired‚ and too old to go through this all over again.

Peopel ask for gate camp 0.0 contract, i give them it.

Participation is still low, LNS people want to be bale to carebear at the same time.. DAC members are no where to be seen, KIA members simply have had enough of the shit particpation.

End result we dont have a fleet.

KIA alliance is on its last legs, i guess its down to us in here to talkthis through, decide whats next, and decide wether its eve worth the effort.

I will start this discussion off with saying that KIA is no longer a MErc Allaince, holding 0.0 space, and being mercs simply does not work. Its a reality we have had to fight off for a while now, and it is staring us point blank in the face.

I am doing a final op tonight.

Then we can discuss whats next. Please feel free to use this thread to air your concerns, thoughts, accusations etc.

Оriginally Postеd by LNS - Snowcrow

no‚ they don't want to carebear, i recruited 5 members before the stain contract and they just get bored. they are about to leave and i can understand them. but if there is nothing to do pvp wise, they sit around and can't even make some money.

I know how you feel eddz, but i also believe that we can change this situation for the better, if we are working together.

And 0.0 and Mercenary Contract is possible if we have the numbers.

Here's what i think what needs to done:
first, we need to go back to geminate, stop doing mercenary work for some time (maybe 1-2 months) and concentrate on our alliance and get it going again.
This won't be a carebearbreak, we will have a shitload of work to do!
1. Let's found this KIA Academy corp together, recruit players from 4-5m sp's and train them. Lyonesse has some guys that are willing to run it, and i am sure that DAC and KIA Corp can get one or two members to join with an alt and teach them now and then PvP.
We will get numbers for home defence, and we will get new recruits over time, and if we need more numbers, we can take them with us one some of the contracts. Those members will learn Interceptors first (so our main gang can focus on damage) and then train for RR BS, at least with t1 guns.

2. We need some sort of FC training and do small roaming gangs for new FCs so they can learn how to do it right. This could Be TJs, JayDeahs and Eddz job, you are great FCs and I'm sure many people can learn something from you. This will provide aswell more action with small roaming gangs.

3. We should allow our people to roam in lowsec and the surrounding 0.0 Regions and do regular roamings with daisho. the low sec hotdrops had been very funny, we need more of this.

4. Look for another PvP corp. I know it's not easy to find a good corp, but it needs to be done. (I might ask Ihatalo Navy again, afaik we refused them, because they were too small. but maybe we can build them up.


It is a lot of work to do, but you dont need to do it alone. KIA is at a low point, but everyone knows how much fun we had in the past, and it is not too late to make KIA an ass-kicking PvP alliance again.

I won't leave KIA as long as there is a chance to get things going again, and we are willing to work on it.
You are tired eddz, but please tell me, we can do this. Don't give up, this alliance is an important part of eve for 4 years now. We must be open for changes but after all, we will become a top PvP alliance again.
And if there's anything i can do, please tell me.

Оriginally Postеd by DAC - Ombey

Let's take this point first. I get the impression from this paragraph that you feel LNS and DAC are lacking‚ and KIA corp are just fed up of it.

Last night, DAC had 14 in corp, and 11 of those were in a gang of 28. Nearly half. Including Daisho.

I'm not saying we don't have a problem in DAC, anymore than the rest of the alliance, but please don't say we're nowhere to be seen. We are a small corp at the best of times.

Daisho seem to have a problem too (maybe Titan incident related)- and as KIA relies on Daisho to make up numbers, this has a knock on effect.

So, here's my take on things:

KIA Alliance lacks an identity. People join KIA to be a merc, not to get bogged down in politics, 0.0 space-holding and the shit that goes with it. The ideal seems rosy. I have recruited a lot of people into DAC, and they all have the same idea- they want fun.

I think they also want to fight for a reason. A purpose. A sense of doing something with a goal. Going to Stain to vaguely help out the Goons....going to fight Tri to help out Hydra when they have 3 other alliances already helping out... people maybe wondering why.

We don't have enough people to be a 0.0 space holding alliance- any alliance of a decent size can come along and twat us. We'd rely on Daisho or Goons to bail us out. And/ or do alarm clock ops as our US TZ coverage is so poor.

So, moving forward. I have absolutely no idea how many merc requests you get Eddz, so I have no idea if Merc'ing is still viable. Is it? I get the impression it isn't.

Оptions:

1. Back to propеr merc'ing‚ give up Geminate
2. Give up merc'ing, stay as 0.0 holding alliance and do 'stuff'
3. Become raiders- move to a 0.0 entry point with a our caps and kit, raid into 0.0, kill everything, then go somewhere else after a break. No blues
4. ??
5. Profit.

Оriginally Postеd by KIAEddZ

Not at all Ombey‚ KIA corp are as much if not more to blame as anyone else, i was just typing without thinking in that paragraph.

KIA corps negativity has spread, and its begginig to wear.

Оriginally Postеd by LNS - Snowcrow

giving upo geminate and become a merc force again is an option.
but not now. last two contracts were a disaster. we need geminate for a few weeks or months to get back on our feets‚ kill stuff in the surrounding area, recruit, train etc.
after that, we can do, whatever we like, operate from npc-0.0 is an option aswell (provides more fights, more fun etc., think about outer ring)

Оriginally Postеd by DAC - Ombey

You do this without firm and interesting plans announced‚ we'll haemorrhage members like it's going out of fashion.

Оriginally Postеd by LNS - Snowcrow

in the end i don't care where we live. as long as we can solve the problems we have and become the super awesome alliance‚ that KIA normally is

Оriginally Postеd by KIAEddZ

My feeling is to open it up for allaince discussion‚ ask what rules needto be changed, what direction people wish to go in.

And see where that discssion leads us.

Оnе thing for sure is we need more leaders to step up and lead‚ and we need to find an identity in the game, as it is now.

imho Mercing doesnt work. We dont get offered contracts, unless they are huge things, or small things.

Empire wars vs 15 men pirate corps or 0.0 pos clearnace vs large allainces, thats what theoffers consist of week in week out.

I am willing to take a step back, re evaluate everything, and change the wrkingpractices from the ground up, if it means that the Alliance floats on its own steam again, because teh amount of energy i have to put in on a weekly basis to keep people from quitting, has tbh, caught up at last.

I am tired.

Оriginally Postеd by DAC - Star Commander

Eddz‚ TBH, I think things started going wrong after we were essentially booted out of Period Basis, despite the obvious gains we made down there in ISK, KIA having it's own Titan etc, the blows to people egos and the ball-breaking blow to people's morale started right down there.

In the months that have passed since then, the Alliance has wandered around a bit, then we came to Geminate, at the invite of the Goons, whom many in this alliance depise as much as Bob, despite being blue to us.

We've been in Geminate for some time now, done a few combat op's outside Geminate, and so far, they've be morale breaking disasters. Why ?

TBFH, I can't answer that, I have no idea why people are so down just now. Things just aren't the same as they were this time last year. Then, the Alliance was on high ground, optimistic and keen.

I took up the reigns of DAC because I hated the idea of the corp disbanding, as it is right now, I feel as if we're hanging on by our finger nails, morale is at an all time low. Some of our best have left or are leaving and I feel helpless to stop them.

We need a MAJОR moralе boosting Contract or combat Op's or things will slowly‚ but surely go down the crapper.

I apologise Eddz for this grim read, but the Alliance needs a wake up call & fast.

If we can just all pull together, shake off the clouds of negativity, then we can rebuild this Alliance back to the great fighting force we were/are.

SC

Оriginally Postеd by KIAEddZ

Reset everyone except goons and daisho.

Go roam anywhere and everywhere killing anything we find?

I am happy to make that call.

Leave geminate‚ go live in empire, I am happy to make that call.

What i cannot do as a person, is feel emotioannly responsible for the happiness of 50 people for 8 hours a day.

I lie awake at night and worry about KIA, my mrs asks me whats wrong and I lie and say i am worried about work, or my family or summin.

I am emotionally drained, I love KIA, as many of you know, and maybe i have made msistakes on restrictions etc, but the bottom line reality is for KAI allaince, is that peoples belief that its fun to be in kia, has dwindled.

Merc allaince is bullshit, i n todays climate there is no room for a merc alliance of our size, too big for hsitty corp war contracts in empire, not big enough for large scale ops in 0.0

I want to pull "home"

take stock, have those that are going to leave just get out.

Then open a floor wide discussion on what KIA should be. And see where that discussion leads us.

When i say i am tired, i am not joking, in 5 years of running KIA, i have never felt as I feel now, disheartened and broken, i honestly dont know if i have the spirit to fight for what we have, or even if its worth it.

Lets get tonights op out of the way, get home, and see what happens from there.

Оriginally Postеd by KIAEddZ

I am too tired‚ and too old to go through this all over again.

Peopel ask for gate camp 0.0 contract, i give them it.

Participation is still low, LNS people want to be bale to carebear at the same time.. DAC members are no where to be seen, KIA members simply have had enough of the shit particpation.

End result we dont have a fleet.

KIA alliance is on its last legs, i guess its down to us in here to talkthis through, decide whats next, and decide wether its eve worth the effort.

I will start this discussion off with saying that KIA is no longer a MErc Allaince, holding 0.0 space, and being mercs simply does not work. Its a reality we have had to fight off for a while now, and it is staring us point blank in the face.

I am doing a final op tonight.

Then we can discuss whats next. Please feel free to use this thread to air your concerns, thoughts, accusations etc.

Оriginally Postеd by LNS - Snowcrow

no‚ they don't want to carebear, i recruited 5 members before the stain contract and they just get bored. they are about to leave and i can understand them. but if there is nothing to do pvp wise, they sit around and can't even make some money.

I know how you feel eddz, but i also believe that we can change this situation for the better, if we are working together.

And 0.0 and Mercenary Contract is possible if we have the numbers.

Here's what i think what needs to done:
first, we need to go back to geminate, stop doing mercenary work for some time (maybe 1-2 months) and concentrate on our alliance and get it going again.
This won't be a carebearbreak, we will have a shitload of work to do!
1. Let's found this KIA Academy corp together, recruit players from 4-5m sp's and train them. Lyonesse has some guys that are willing to run it, and i am sure that DAC and KIA Corp can get one or two members to join with an alt and teach them now and then PvP.
We will get numbers for home defence, and we will get new recruits over time, and if we need more numbers, we can take them with us one some of the contracts. Those members will learn Interceptors first (so our main gang can focus on damage) and then train for RR BS, at least with t1 guns.

2. We need some sort of FC training and do small roaming gangs for new FCs so they can learn how to do it right. This could Be TJs, JayDeahs and Eddz job, you are great FCs and I'm sure many people can learn something from you. This will provide aswell more action with small roaming gangs.

3. We should allow our people to roam in lowsec and the surrounding 0.0 Regions and do regular roamings with daisho. the low sec hotdrops had been very funny, we need more of this.

4. Look for another PvP corp. I know it's not easy to find a good corp, but it needs to be done. (I might ask Ihatalo Navy again, afaik we refused them, because they were too small. but maybe we can build them up.


It is a lot of work to do, but you dont need to do it alone. KIA is at a low point, but everyone knows how much fun we had in the past, and it is not too late to make KIA an ass-kicking PvP alliance again.

I won't leave KIA as long as there is a chance to get things going again, and we are willing to work on it.
You are tired eddz, but please tell me, we can do this. Don't give up, this alliance is an important part of eve for 4 years now. We must be open for changes but after all, we will become a top PvP alliance again.
And if there's anything i can do, please tell me.

Оriginally Postеd by DAC - Ombey

Let's take this point first. I get the impression from this paragraph that you feel LNS and DAC are lacking‚ and KIA corp are just fed up of it.

Last night, DAC had 14 in corp, and 11 of those were in a gang of 28. Nearly half. Including Daisho.

I'm not saying we don't have a problem in DAC, anymore than the rest of the alliance, but please don't say we're nowhere to be seen. We are a small corp at the best of times.

Daisho seem to have a problem too (maybe Titan incident related)- and as KIA relies on Daisho to make up numbers, this has a knock on effect.

So, here's my take on things:

KIA Alliance lacks an identity. People join KIA to be a merc, not to get bogged down in politics, 0.0 space-holding and the shit that goes with it. The ideal seems rosy. I have recruited a lot of people into DAC, and they all have the same idea- they want fun.

I think they also want to fight for a reason. A purpose. A sense of doing something with a goal. Going to Stain to vaguely help out the Goons....going to fight Tri to help out Hydra when they have 3 other alliances already helping out... people maybe wondering why.

We don't have enough people to be a 0.0 space holding alliance- any alliance of a decent size can come along and twat us. We'd rely on Daisho or Goons to bail us out. And/ or do alarm clock ops as our US TZ coverage is so poor.

So, moving forward. I have absolutely no idea how many merc requests you get Eddz, so I have no idea if Merc'ing is still viable. Is it? I get the impression it isn't.

Оptions:

1. Back to propеr merc'ing‚ give up Geminate
2. Give up merc'ing, stay as 0.0 holding alliance and do 'stuff'
3. Become raiders- move to a 0.0 entry point with a our caps and kit, raid into 0.0, kill everything, then go somewhere else after a break. No blues
4. ??
5. Profit.

Оriginally Postеd by KIAEddZ

Not at all Ombey‚ KIA corp are as much if not more to blame as anyone else, i was just typing without thinking in that paragraph.

KIA corps negativity has spread, and its begginig to wear.

Оriginally Postеd by LNS - Snowcrow

giving upo geminate and become a merc force again is an option.
but not now. last two contracts were a disaster. we need geminate for a few weeks or months to get back on our feets‚ kill stuff in the surrounding area, recruit, train etc.
after that, we can do, whatever we like, operate from npc-0.0 is an option aswell (provides more fights, more fun etc., think about outer ring)

Оriginally Postеd by DAC - Ombey

You do this without firm and interesting plans announced‚ we'll haemorrhage members like it's going out of fashion.

Оriginally Postеd by LNS - Snowcrow

in the end i don't care where we live. as long as we can solve the problems we have and become the super awesome alliance‚ that KIA normally is

Оriginally Postеd by KIAEddZ

My feeling is to open it up for allaince discussion‚ ask what rules needto be changed, what direction people wish to go in.

And see where that discssion leads us.

Оnе thing for sure is we need more leaders to step up and lead‚ and we need to find an identity in the game, as it is now.

imho Mercing doesnt work. We dont get offered contracts, unless they are huge things, or small things.

Empire wars vs 15 men pirate corps or 0.0 pos clearnace vs large allainces, thats what theoffers consist of week in week out.

I am willing to take a step back, re evaluate everything, and change the wrkingpractices from the ground up, if it means that the Alliance floats on its own steam again, because teh amount of energy i have to put in on a weekly basis to keep people from quitting, has tbh, caught up at last.

I am tired.

Оriginally Postеd by DAC - Star Commander

Eddz‚ TBH, I think things started going wrong after we were essentially booted out of Period Basis, despite the obvious gains we made down there in ISK, KIA having it's own Titan etc, the blows to people egos and the ball-breaking blow to people's morale started right down there.

In the months that have passed since then, the Alliance has wandered around a bit, then we came to Geminate, at the invite of the Goons, whom many in this alliance depise as much as Bob, despite being blue to us.

We've been in Geminate for some time now, done a few combat op's outside Geminate, and so far, they've be morale breaking disasters. Why ?

TBFH, I can't answer that, I have no idea why people are so down just now. Things just aren't the same as they were this time last year. Then, the Alliance was on high ground, optimistic and keen.

I took up the reigns of DAC because I hated the idea of the corp disbanding, as it is right now, I feel as if we're hanging on by our finger nails, morale is at an all time low. Some of our best have left or are leaving and I feel helpless to stop them.

We need a MAJОR moralе boosting Contract or combat Op's or things will slowly‚ but surely go down the crapper.

I apologise Eddz for this grim read, but the Alliance needs a wake up call & fast.

If we can just all pull together, shake off the clouds of negativity, then we can rebuild this Alliance back to the great fighting force we were/are.

SC

Оriginally Postеd by KIAEddZ

Reset everyone except goons and daisho.

Go roam anywhere and everywhere killing anything we find?

I am happy to make that call.

Leave geminate‚ go live in empire, I am happy to make that call.

What i cannot do as a person, is feel emotioannly responsible for the happiness of 50 people for 8 hours a day.

I lie awake at night and worry about KIA, my mrs asks me whats wrong and I lie and say i am worried about work, or my family or summin.

I am emotionally drained, I love KIA, as many of you know, and maybe i have made msistakes on restrictions etc, but the bottom line reality is for KAI allaince, is that peoples belief that its fun to be in kia, has dwindled.

Merc allaince is bullshit, i n todays climate there is no room for a merc alliance of our size, too big for hsitty corp war contracts in empire, not big enough for large scale ops in 0.0

I want to pull "home"

take stock, have those that are going to leave just get out.

Then open a floor wide discussion on what KIA should be. And see where that discussion leads us.

When i say i am tired, i am not joking, in 5 years of running KIA, i have never felt as I feel now, disheartened and broken, i honestly dont know if i have the spirit to fight for what we have, or even if its worth it.

Lets get tonights op out of the way, get home, and see what happens from there.

Оriginally Postеd by IPOS - iblade darkstar

my 2 cents

the trouble that KIA is faceing is the same trouble i have seen with every pvp corp/alliance and that is lack of numbers leads to a lack of partisapation.

now i'm a carebear and have no real intrest in pvp but as a 00 industry corp it is something that we need to have to suvive. it is also something that we have never been able to get sorted properly. to hold space in 0.0 you need 2 things both of which KIA now have.

there is only 1 thing that KIA needs to become the as good as it used to be and that is numbers and as far as i can see there are 2 main ways to do this.

1) recruit
2) merge with another alliance

as to point 1 i think at 2 months recuriting with a lower standard could boost the numbers follow that by a month maybe 2 of training and you should be bk to the numbers that you had.
now onto point 2. at the moment we are having troubles but then so is diaso part of that trouble is the fatc that niether of the alliancces have the numbers they need on there own now i think you can see where i'm headed. has anyone looked at merging the 2 alliances into 1. this would solve the troouble that we have with the US TZ and would boost numbers up to over 600 in the alliance again.

all in all i don't think that the alliance is in bad shape and moral is not as bad as it at first my apear. WE can still turn this alliance back onto the correct path as snow said earlyer all it will take is some hard work from everyone.

Originally Posted by KIAEddZ

a daisho merger is not gonna happen anytime soon‚ they are in far worse trouble than us, and picking up their leadership and their problems would probably end KIA.

Recruiting 2 new active corps would be imho a better solution.

Tides of War just left Hydra, they imo were by far the best Hydra corp, they might be worth a look..

Оriginally Postеd by LNS - Snowcrow

eddz‚ i know how you feel, tbh i had the same feeling so often with lyonesse, we have been through very hard times until KIA gave us a new home, and even in kia there had been problems, and it's sometimes just furstrating to feel responsible for all of your members, and that they have fun and enjoy the game. The only reason, my corp still exists is, because i had some great people around me, like templer or easy, who did so much for this corp and took responsibility, so i had a bit more time to enjoy the game.

and maybe its a good thing, if you let others do some work for you, be it corp- or alliance members. you are a great leader, but you can't do everything on your own and if this affects your real life and you lose the fun of playing eve, then some things need to change.

i can't imagine this alliance without you, neither do i want this alliance to disband, cause it's still the best alliance that i had the pleasure to be a part of, and i think many of us feel the same way.
at the moment, the situation looks very sinister, but i really believe that we need some confidence that things will change for the better.
and maybe it's our call to get this alliance going again, so you can enjoy the game aswell.

ok, sorry for this optimistic bullshit, if you think "fuck you snow, you've got no idea" your probably right. I just don't want to let this die, not this way, our time hasn't come yet.

Оriginally Postеd by KIAEddZ

final op tonight‚ try and have some fun.

Go home, take stock, people leave, open up for floor wide discussion.

For me there is no reality in merc allaince, too big for Corp wars vs 15 men corps, too small to take on Tri and teh like in 0.0

reset all except goons and fdaisho, an just go wherever we want killing anythign we see.

this is what is being fed to me a lot on the option people want, if we discard the idea we are mercs, then it is feasible to do so.

Also mean ops wouldnt be mandatory etc etc etc

I really thnk if we do stay on, and we do keep kia going, we need new blood, with new fcs and newenthusiasm.

for me, todya, this week, i am literally deadon my feet, i have been pretty sick last 2 weeks, and i think it is all just catching up with me.

Оriginally Postеd by KIA - Darkcraft

i take it the whole militia side of eve is still gay and not worth considering??

Originally Posted by KIAEddZ

totally and utterly gay‚ unfortunately.

Оriginally Postеd by Iratus

Where would we be without the patented summer KIA implosion


Hope you guys work it out

Originally Posted by IPOS - The Wilber

This is seasonal. Students are all moving back to school and getting re-situated. Some have been gone all summer and will BB in the fall. FFS we see this every year in every alliance I have been in. Stay the course and quit all the worry. Recruit the fresh blood we need to boost morale. IMO‚ people that spend time worrying about their Rep, are usually the 1st ones to lose it.

Оriginally Postеd by KIA - Imperius Blackheart

First of all‚ this thread, WОW unеxpected‚ but then again I ѕympathisе‚ i've run groupѕ in othеr games which were less demanding and smaller and it becomes your baby‚ when thingѕ ain't working right staying up at night worrying... its kinda normal.

I know I'm latе replying here because I've literally just got back in the door to my place in the last couple of hours‚ unfortunately my net waѕ worsе this week when I was away with the mrs than I had hoped‚ luckly I waѕ having a good еnough time not to care.

Personally I hope that if you need a break you can take a step back for a few days Eddz and get a fresh perspective. Although it is pressure KIA needs you‚ your the guiding energy behind the alliance and I don't think anyone could ѕtеp upto the mantle you hold of great cat herder. I don't know how your feeling now‚ I ѕеe this has slipped a little way down the forums‚ but I hope itѕ bеtter and that you find the energy for the alliance again‚ me well merc or not i'm here for you and the alliance in any capacity you need me.



Aѕ for Mеrc'ing and the size issues‚ well we could go for ѕcalability and a widеr service offering perhaps? I don't know if its something you have considered previously? Currently if KIA goes to war the whole alliance rolls out which is either too much or two little for the offers we are getting.

Well if you could hire a KIA corp instead of the alliance‚ and come to a KIA repreѕеntative with your offering you might have a job thats the right size for a 1-2-3 of our corps depending on the objective? I understand the reasons for us being one entity currently when hired but it does open up the market somewhat.

And with larger scale contracts perhaps we could rent ourselves out more on a consultant basis? Currently we hire ourselves out on the basis that we can bring 30-50 BS to a fight‚ but what if we hired out our technical knowhow and FC'ing experience, we bolѕtеred our employers numbers rather than fighting separately for defined goals‚ ѕo if thеy wanted to hire us with an objective of "Take system X" we would supply the FC's logistical chains and experience‚ they would ѕupply thе BS fleet to take the cyno jammer down & a lot of the dreads to do so etc.

I guess I might be going over areas which you have thought about or discussed already‚ I gueѕs i saw that and just startеd sharing my ideas. I'll shut up now.

But you know where to find me if you need me.